For over 30 years, Tema Okun has devoted her life to
dismantling racism and oppression of all forms. In this episode, Tema discusses
her own evolution as an anti-racist white person and some of the hard-earned
lessons she’s learned along the way. As she mentions in the episode, racism is
not something that can go away through a half day workshop, it is a long and
winding road of facing into oneself and the systems and structures in the air
that we breathe. Doing this work will inevitably activate guilt and shame, feelings
we are all socialized to avoid. But the cost of not facing into these feelings
is too great. She says, “The cost of racism to all of humanity is our ability
to be fully in community with one another.” The most radical thing we can do is
understand when we feel it; to DEEP DIVE into it and recognize below that there
is love.
White dominant culture has such deep levels of denial and is
behind disconnection from ourselves and other people. White dominant culture hinders
authentic connection between people by placing a premium on being right, on
pretending we are ok, on niceness, and reinforcing the good/bad binary. Doing
the work of anti-racism requires a lot of practice in being in a state of not
knowing and that can be uncomfortable for many of us. White dominant culture
teaches that you if you make a mistake, you are a mistake but we don’t have to
buy into that. We are ALL harmed by injustice, white people, too. Let’s create
something new by focusing on what we want and not just fighting against
something we don’t want. Join us for this important conversation!
Show Highlights:
- How does my racial indoctrination get in the way
of how I am in relationship to myself and others? - Why “allies” is no longer the right term.
- Having the best of intentions but still hurting
people. - The danger of self-righteousness, of believing “I’m
not like that…” - How shame is keeping racism going
- The gift of people telling you an uncomfortable
truth vs. writing you off - The gift to ourselves of confronting our own
racism - Who is benefiting from racism?
- The difference between those who should know
better and those who have no reason to know better - We are all in it together.
- The problem with the good/bad binary
- The role of the sense of belonging
- How do we work through fear and instead show up
in a way that is deeply loving - The problem with needing to be right
- The inevitability of hurting one another but being
in relationship means we also show up in constructive relationship and heal one
another, too. - Revisions Tema is currently working on to her White
Supremacy Culture article - Tema’s take on the most common white dominant
culture norms that show up at the Skid Row School - Trying to fix it quickly only adds to the
problem. Let us slow down to go faster.
Links:
http://www.dismantlingracism.org/
https://conference.ncnonprofits.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/DEI_AddressWhiteDominantCulture.pdf
https://resourcegeneration.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2016-dRworks-workbook.pdf
Episode Transcript:
Video Transcript_ EP 18_ Tema Okun “Facing Into Your Own Racism with Courage and Love
Where can we read about the highlights?
Why is the better term for allies?
How does shame keep racism going?
I am not Judeo Christian in beliefs, so I do not buy the concept of original sin. Nor do I think that we are guilty for the sins of our foreparents, so I feel no personal shame for their actions. I do admit benefitting & shame that about what was done to PoC. I haven’t figured out what I am supposed to do about it now.
Thank you for your questions, Laurie! Here is Tema’s response:
There are lots of resources online including the http://www.dismantlingracism.org website that offer more info about how white supremacy and racism operate. I prefer the word accomplice to the word ally because I think it’s important to claim my direct stake in racial justice. I am working with, rather than for. And while we may not be directly guilty or responsible for the sins of our ancestors, their legacy does impact us both individually and collectively in every dimension – spiritually, physically, mentally, and emotionally. Just as their gifts of love and tradition help us navigate, their racist and inhumane justifications, attitudes, and behaviors shape the way that we think and act. So we have responsibility, if only to clear ourselves of a legacy of toxic conditioning that does not serve us or those we love (or anyone). Getting caught up in shame is not generally very helpful, although I think that feeling shame about what is shameful is human and important. There are so many ways for us to take responsibility for racism and white supremacy now, including getting involved in national/local efforts like SURJ (Showing Up for Racial Justice) and/or other national/local efforts that meet you where you feel called – the environment, food, health, education, etc. Building justice is both a very personal and a very collaborative/collective act, so find your people (if you haven’t already) and continue to learn and grow as these questions show you are doing so well.
Tema Okun
Hi! This was great. Where can I find the dysfunction/alternative cards mentioned during the interview? Thanks!!
Hi Tom! Although we’ve thought about selling these on our website, we have never ordered them in these quantities. We use them in our trainings but feel free to reach out to me at selena@billionsinstitute.com and I’ll see if I can get a deck to you!
Hey! Is there a transcript for this podcast? Thanks!
Hi Ruby!
We are actually working on adding transcriptions of our podcasts and will upload them soon! Stay tuned… I can also email you when ready if you’d like!
When I was in college a professor turned half of the class over to the students; we were to plan the curriculum ourselves. When we didn’t even have class and I objected, the professor said I “had problems tolerating ambiguity”…because I believed that not having the class I paid for meet regularly was wrong. Am I now supposed to feel that I was also “racist” for expecting my class to have a meeting time rather than embracing ambiguity?
Hi Kelly,
We reached out to Tema for her response and here is her reply:
Whether you consider yourself racist or not is really up to you. The label itself doesn’t actually accomplish much unless you want to use it to really investigate your conditioning. I wonder why you want to label your frustration as racism; you have not specified the race of your professor. Am I to take it that your professor is a Person of Color and you are white? If that is the case and the professor is offering you something that causes frustration, what I will say is that this is an excellent opportunity to sit with the frustration and see what it offers you. If you feel you are somehow being harmed or taken advantage of, dig into that a little deeper to understand why that is. That’s where the juicy stuff is found, investigating why we respond the way we do and what those responses have to offer about our ability to, in this case, handle ambiguity. My guess is that your frustration is “conditioned,” meaning that it is your first and automatic response. The beauty of racial equity work is that it gives us an opportunity to explore our conditioning, to see how our automatic responses may not actually serve us. Another guess is that if this bothers you so much, there is something there to explore. Maybe there is a part of you that wants to embrace ambiguity and another part of you that is frightened or threatened by that. Maybe not. And as long as you are in this situation, rather than label yourself, or assume that others want to label you for your frustration, use this as an opportunity to dig deeper. Or not. It’s completely up to you. Tema
Thank you for listening to the podcast and for engaging in the process.
best,
Selena